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Blu-ray vs. HD DVD

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Microsoft, Sony and dozens of other large corporations have spent years NOT agreeing on a standard format for the next generation DVD. The result: two separate and incompatible formats are being offered to consumers. Eventually, like Betamax and VHS before them, one will win and one will lose. As of now, which one will win and which one will lose is uncertain. What is certain is that consumers will lose. Why? Some consumers will buy the losing format and end up with obsolete equipment. Many more consumers will buy nothing until after there is a clear winner - and prices will remain high until a mass market is developed.


It is our belief that we the consumers can determine the winner in this format war. How will we do this? By having YOU vote for the format you prefer to win (Click here or on "Comparison between Blu-ray and HD DVD" link in the "Learn More" section to the left to see a comparison between the two formats). Then we all agree to buy the format that wins the vote. OK, it's as much a social experiment as a consumer stand. But our goal is clear - push the losing format to drop out. Let's take control! WHY DID YOU VOTE AS YOU DID? Share your thoughts in the forum below.
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We are a long way from $200 players my friend. Read the articles prices have constantly gone up since Toshiba announced it quit. BTW I still will not buy an unfinished product. If there are no other options by the time they get around to finishing the product of course I will buy; but probably that wont be happening. Between downloadable content, improved streaming, new internet improvements I am sure quality e-hd will be available around the time Sony and the BDA can get its stuff together.

Ron I can tell you are still bitter over hddvd losing, and now only want blu-ray to fail, even if that means no more high-def.
I think you're wrong on the price of players. You are thinking too short sightedly. This is THE worst time of year for any product to sell. All sales are gone right now so prices are generally higher. You're not thinking of next Christmas sales & discounts that will put many players under the $200 mark from other CEs. They are going to compete with Sony...the gloves are now off, and competition will bring the prices down as it always has.

During slow sales times prices drop not increase. You are right the year end NOV DEC is the best time to find sharp pencils easily though. Still you will not likely see those prices this year. Again see this statement from Sony regarding the pricing of all CE's on BR hardware. Sony+CEO+Bluray...

This is kinda funny, talking about upconversion of DVDs vs Blu-ray: tch?v=WMoFQI5TT...

Well, I guess this discussion is basically defunct, with the OFFICIAL announcement by Toshiba to pull out of HD-DVD. You know, the two camps almost agreed on a unified format before they decided to go their own way. Here in Japan where I live, Blu-ray was strong all the way anyway. Pity Toshiba will lose a lot of investment, but I do applaud them for pulling out at this stage before it got too late. Good business decision (Toshiba shares actually rose), plus less confusion for US, THE CONSUMER. My heart does go out to all of you who went out and bought HD-DVD players, recorders, movie discs etc... In Japan some large retail stores are offering people a switch over to Blu-ray for customers who recently ordered HD-DVD players/recorders.

no hddvd her in ULS it dead. China will have the own hddvd. very few her can pay for blu--ray but it is good.

I hope they put serenity on blu-ray. That would be so awsome.


For those who have Toshiba HD DVD , you should really take the last chance to buy HD DVD movie as long as there around for time been. There are still good movies , good quality, but very soon it will be very hard to get them , nobody will make this format anymore, so take advantage of it . Also Blu ray players will go down prices a specially now as the ONE HD format choosen, by summer you will notice huge drop prices .


I need to get Beowulf!

Shows what you BR people know I said time and time once Sony wins prices will increase. The average price on BR has gone up since Toshiba's announcement. Although only slightly for now it will increase faster once HD DVDs are off the market. ntent/view/3629...
And these prices are increases on 1.x machines as there are no 2.0 hardware available yet.

B.S. The players have either maintained a near identical price point since HD DVD went down the drain, or in some cases have dropped by a bit. Not only that, many retailers are back-ordered on Bluray players.Sony never did want to try to establish a market share by giving away their hardware. That's exactly where Toshiba went wrong - a very poor business decsion on their part, to say the least.

Well if you know so much instead of harassing me. Why do you not write to tgdaily who posted the article and pricegrabber who supplied the data and tell them they are liars because they are in your opinion defaming BR and therefore cannot be correct. I do not know where you get this information on product shortage there certainly is not any around how or at any e-tailers I visit. Maybe you could supply some data on that.

I disagree that it will continue to increase, but rather it will start coming down next Christmas season, and not just on 1.0 players. Hopefully those will hit the magic $200 mark and help the mass adoption of high-def, and even 1.1 & 2.0 players will come down some during the holiday season (there definitely will be deals out there better than the MSRP). I am not conerned about the adoption of extras, which I know is important to hddvd supporters, I am only concerned with adoption of high-def, which is the movie itself(audio & video). Most consumers aren't going to adopt high-def because of the extras, but rather because of high-def itself, otherwise the war wouldn't be over, or hddvd would have won this thing. It's the movie experience that is high-def and this is what will be adopted.
But as far as extras go, those players will come down over the next 6mon and continually over the next few years. These CE companies and the Studios and the BDA and everyone who has money at stake in Blu-ray high-def technology, are not going to be so stupid as to price themselves out of making money, by leaving the prices too high for too long. It will come down.

There is no disagreeing it is a fact prices on BR hardware and software have rose steadily since Toshiba's announcement. BTW you don't make money selling things cheap, you make money selling things high, that's why Sony wanted exclusive on the next dvd format, no competition, no price decreases. Now the competition is gone and Sony is increasing prices to where they were; which is where they want them to be.

I disagree. Sony can't force Pioneer, Samsung, Panasonic, etc., and eventually even Toshiba, to keep their prices high. Sony can try to keep their own prices high if they wish, however the laws of competition and capitalism will come into play by the other CE manufacturers, and force prices downward soon enough.
You sound like you have an inside track on Sony's diabolical corporate strategies to keep prices high now that Toshiba is out of the way. It makes no sense, as they don't control the other CEs, and I'm sure they do want Blu-ray to succeed at this point. Keeping prices high for too long will not sell blu-ray don't think they and the BDA know this? They didn't become that large a corporation by being completely stupid. Think about it, what is Sony going to gain by keeping prices high? ...they sure know, nothing! The simple fact is that Sony will make more money off Blu-ray if the technology sustains itself for a long time, which means prices have to come down. they know this. where they are going to really make their money is off Blu-ray patent royalties and when mass adoption sets in, they will make up the profit margins on volume (even at much lower price points). This is simple Business 101.

You must work for somebody, because you have no concept of business. He who holds the license (rights) to a product most certainly can control market price. High cost licensing rights mean high cost at retail. That is business 101, you must have slept through the class.

Did you ever even take a business class. I took business in university. Your concept of business is crazy. First you make the mistake of just assuming with no proof either way, that Sony's licensing rights costs are high. Do you have an inside track with Sony & the other CE companies to know this? Sony aren't jacking their licensing rights up in cost to make more money, that's absurd, and not how business works in the real world. The other CE's would never have backed Sony if it cost them too much in licensing to produce product. You also make the mistake that Sony is the one with all the licensing power, but forget about everyone else in the BDA, and all the other numerous companies with patents in Blu-ray technology.
Even if Sony did hold all the rights (which they don't) and could abuse the cost thing as you suggest, they never would because no other CEs would be able to afford to make product that's in a reasonable selling range. Sony would be completely out on their own, and the technology would die a quick death. Therefore they won't be able to control the market place either way.
Only if Sony and all other CEs conspired together to keep prices high would there be a market place that is controlled & abused. Then there would be no competition, and no capitalism kicking in...basically a monopoly or consortium of a monopoly to hold the market hostage.
You don't think that is the case with Blu-ray technology do you Ron? Your response to all this will tell me your complete knowledge of business in the real world.

Actually the proof is on every store shelf its only the blu light blinding you my Sony friend. From the cheapest manufacturers to the premium everyones price is the same $500 and up. Sony itself is the only one with a BR player consistently under $500 (call it the PS3).
Past that your comments are a pile of crap as long as Sony doesn't undercut the other CE's, there is a viable market for them and competing in it is no problem. In fact competition is far easier this way as one does not need to worry about price being an issue. People will be choosing by other factors instead.
Charging for licensing rights is exactly how business works, did you miss that little thing called the 'writer's strike' it was all over dividends on internet licensing. IBM is a company that made its millions and stays in business due to licensing. Sony's greatest failings are not due to poor technology; but poor licensing. A lesson they learned and corrected with BR, hence the number of manufacturers and licensees.
I note you claim you TOOK business in university, no statement as to your success. You my friend have prooven that you are naught but another employee to some one elses business success by your statements. Only an employee would have such a shallow non-sensical view of business. Real money is made when you can sell 'air in a box', that's what licensing is the R&D and costs are already spent, you just have to cash the cheques as they flow in.

I never said I graduated with business. I took 3 business and 2 economics courses, and a computer systems management and support course, what have you ever taken?
Ron you are obviously a complete bonehead that knows nothing about business as you couldn't even answer my question without complete BS that I read above, so you've proven you know pretty much nothing about have corporations operate. The only air trying to be sold is the hot air coming from you, and no one is buying. You are totally wrong about the level of control you think Sony have over others with the licensing. You think they can just pick their price and everyone will buy it. That's just your hot air talking. It doesn't work like that, Mr. Sour grapes.

There is a bonehead here, it is you. You have no clue what you're talking about. You do not have any clue with whom you are speaking or my credentials. The only BS is yours. You will not uphold any statement contrary to your own views on BR even if it comes from Sony or the BDA itself. Sony+CEO+Bluray...
Sony and the BDA do control prices and will do whatever it takes to continue, including maintaining the closed club of CE producers currently supporting the technology. Not allowing any Chinese manufacturers of the product to ensure the maintaining of high prices.
Definitely anyone who wants to be in the hi def business will absolutely pay Sony whatever they say.
Also if you had a clue about business you would realize that as you said Sony has a lot of licensing to maintain on the product, which affects how low their license price can go.
Your statements only go to further evidence your complete ignorance of real world business. If you do have the credits you claim, classroom experience is apparently all that you have. Wake up and join the real world. If selling goods was were the money was at then big box retailers would not sell shelf space, advertising space and service contracts (all also known as 'air'). Stop being such a Sony fanboy, pay attention to class and you may learn something yet. Sony knows these things, so do all the other members of the BDA. If BR gets mainline adoption to fast then the price would drop and the margin hay day would end. BDA members, including Sony have not had the opportunity to enjoy the usual profittable period of a new technology, partially due to the format war.

"Also Blu ray players will go down prices a specially now as the ONE HD format choosen, by summer you will notice huge drop prices"
Yeah, of profile 1.0 players.

You have to realize that to the average Joe & to Blu-ray supporters, the extras experience was never a big deal anyway, so having 1.0 players sold at reduced prices will help get many people into high-def. If they want the extras they are going to have to pay for it right now...I know hddvd already had the extras from day one..but that's not what's important when it comes to mass adoption of high-def right now.

The 1.1 & 2.0 players will come down in price over Christmas and definitely over the next year or so...IMHO

So Charles you know more than the entire industry do you? Sony, the BDA, the DVD Forum, video publishers, retailers all have it wrong. The public does NOT want extras contrary to what these 100's of organizations believe and contrary to what sales data shows.

No, you misinterpreted my message. What I am trying to say is, that the average consumer right now, who are not tainted by the bitterness of the format war (not the hddvd supporters), don't care about the extras right now as much as they will high-def itself (the movie video/audio). Eventually many will care more about the extras down the road when they become popular with this new mass crowd of consumers, and at that point many will care about Pip and interconnectively (which is why BDA, Sony & DVD Forum have extras in the specs for the future), but right now, and for likely the next year or so, most consumers will not be hung up on the extras like some people are that have already experienced them and gotten used to them, especially at one of the main arguments for their particular format choice. new consumers out there right now are not hung up on arguing over a format choice, and will not be so aware of the extras as a show stopper or such a big deal, as hddvd supporters have and still do.

The average consumer has been concerned with extras for several years now. Many repurchase the same titles over and over for extras.

You must be talking about SD DVDs, not hddvd, right?
The consumer you are talking about is a small minority that do that. And the extras you are referring to in that scenario are not the PiP/interactivity (profile1.1/2.0) stuff. Only the hddvd supporters are concerned with this, not the average joe consumer who doesn't even know much about high-def technology yet, and won't care as much about the high-def type extras, as you think they will, until some time after it really hits the market. Most consumers will care about the 1080p/lossless high-def, not extras. Only a minority will care so much for extras, as you suggest with SD DVDs.

Home video market is home video market. BTW the same thing was done with VHS until it died and HD is no different. These are hardly the minority, it would not benefit a company to reproduce and re-release a movie if it would not sell well. In many cases the re-releases sell as well or better than their predecessors.

Your english is coming along well Chris... :-)

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