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Blu-ray vs. HD DVD

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Microsoft, Sony and dozens of other large corporations have spent years NOT agreeing on a standard format for the next generation DVD. The result: two separate and incompatible formats are being offered to consumers. Eventually, like Betamax and VHS before them, one will win and one will lose. As of now, which one will win and which one will lose is uncertain. What is certain is that consumers will lose. Why? Some consumers will buy the losing format and end up with obsolete equipment. Many more consumers will buy nothing until after there is a clear winner - and prices will remain high until a mass market is developed.


It is our belief that we the consumers can determine the winner in this format war. How will we do this? By having YOU vote for the format you prefer to win (Click here or on "Comparison between Blu-ray and HD DVD" link in the "Learn More" section to the left to see a comparison between the two formats). Then we all agree to buy the format that wins the vote. OK, it's as much a social experiment as a consumer stand. But our goal is clear - push the losing format to drop out. Let's take control! WHY DID YOU VOTE AS YOU DID? Share your thoughts in the forum below.
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Steve the "Puppet Master". Master of puppets. He likes the term puppets on a string because he likes to use it as an analogy to express his hate towards Sony and those who 'don't' hate Sony like he does. Irrational hate of Sony, sounds good to Let's not hate Saddam Hussein, lets hate the 'real' enemy, SONY! LMAO See, I'm no longer a puppet, I'm a Sony hater too.

Yeh, except for hddvd buyers remorse or some irrational anti Sony thing, I fail to get the point of this puppet bit either. I can't answer for anyone else, but when I went last year to buy a hi-rez disc player, I don't recall Sony calling, faxing, or emailing me prior to my purchase. Unless they put some BLU chemical in our drinking water (lol,) I just looked at hddvd and Bluray side by side and made my choice based on what I saw. Actually after having paid $2000+ for a 1080p television, $400-500 for what I perceived as a better value seemed reasoanble. I recall paying that much or more for my first DVD player as well. Back to the puupet thing for a moment. Using the Sony hater logic, I'm guessing that 99 out of 100 of ALL of us here are Microsoft puppets, yes? Then again maybe I'm a Ford, Whirlpool, Dell, Infinity, Uniden, Maxell, Dyson, Motorola, HP, puppet too. I'm sure that some hddvd fan will explain all of this to me after I leave the forum though. Or if not, they'll try to remind me that my Sony player is obsolete at the very least. Just wait a little while longer when the last of the hddvd movies are released. Then we'll discuss the real meaning of obsolete.

Do you dog people who don't own a ford,dell,and so on or how about the people who don't want it every person in this forum who don't like sony or want a game console for the center of there home theater is a toshiba fanboy Ive said it before and i'll say it again SONY needs me I don't need them.

Based on a lot of reading here, it seems like the HDDVD camp is doing most of the barking.

It's one thing to say you hate Sony and expect people to not dog you for it, but its another if you call them Sony Puppets Mr. Puppet Master!

I am a HDDVD FAN and i already have made the reason why i like this format better than blu ray. But blu ray have won. Now with that in mind why do you think you still need to try to push that format down our throats. You choose the winning format that's all doesn't make it the best one. So please stop trying to force blu ray down our throat. By the way i have a combo player i can play both format and still like HDDVD better. LG GGW-H10N

The real reason is because bluray has only won 1% of the market. The whole hi-def war was nothing compared to the dvd vs. hd war, and to be honest, all personal opinions of bluray aside, I don't think it stands a chance in hell of becoming anything more than a niche market and potential video game media tech (which personally, I would like to see HD DVD do as well).

I've noticed you have a favorite new montra. Everything is now Niche Market. Did someone learn a new word? Steve P. learned the word 'puppet'. Ron C. learned the words "Price increase".
You guys are so smart. And such logical arguments, backed with such credible facts. I can't argue with
I will say this. If you think that every CE manufacturer in the world is wrong, every Studio in the world, and every retailer in the world, that stands to make millions-billions on the new high def technology over the next 10 years, are stupid & wrong & their investments in blu-ray are all going to crash (as they are all behind blu-ray technology), then I leave you to your own wrong opinion.
But all these companies can't be wrong and you right in my opinion, so I'm quite certain that Blu-ray will take off at a steady pace, just fine, and early indications on many sites and sources are showing this trend. 1st quarter of 2009 is when we will really start to see adoption move forward anyway.
You just sound bitter over hddvd losing and you want Blu-ray to fail, even at the expense of high-def itself. Your 1% is off by the way, you should really do more current research!

I think you're SO wrong. I've had my player on backorder with Crutchfield for a month.

So what's your gripe? You have a combo player, just sit back and enjoy it. After all, you must have had some interest in BluRay, or you would have bought a much cheaper Toshiba HDDVD only player. Apparently, you swallowed both formats without any outside assistance when YOU bought the combo in the first place.

My problem is not what it look or sound like.My problem blu ray is 1. Region protection 2. BD+ 3. Version 1.0 / 1.1 / 2.0 and... 4. No combo disc, i like that when i go for a ride, for my childrens. And i dont know what SONY will come up with next. HDDVD was more user friendly. Their is some movie not available in north america. I bought some movie from europe and now i wont be able to that with blu ray. So for all those reason i think it was a bad choice. I bought HARRY POTTER GOBLET OF FIRE (UK) at lease 3 month before it was available in america.That's what i like with HD DVD. The only good thing with blu ray is the size 50gig and form me that's not enough.

Exactly. Here's what I am curious about. What kind of sound and video cards does S M have in his/her? computer? Are they high def, 1080p/24 capable & able to stream TrueHD, DTS HD and PCM lossless audio? And do they have HDMI outputs? Otherwise it would be pointless to debate which format looks/sounds better.
But assuming the PC has the high def hdmi cards in it, I do like the concept of using a PC as the central interactive home theatre hub for the household.
I think if the PC has the proper high def cards with hdmi outs, and it was hooked up to a 56"+ screen(1080p/24), S M would be more than happy when watching any high def movie, especially some of the newer Blu-ray ones that are coming out where they are pushing the envelope on bit rate spiking (lowering compression) for much clearer picture, especially during fast action and darker scenes.
Someone mentioned on an earlier post about a relatively inexpensive projector/screen setup. I really like that idea. I think it was the Optima HD80 with a special type screen (Da-lite high-power retro-reflective screen I think?) for just over $3000, you basically have a theater in your home better than what most real theatres would look like. I think that might be my next purchase. I did some research on it already, but gotta do a litlle more. sounds promising though.
S M, If you don't have the proper audio/video cards, it may be worth looking into what kind to get and the cost, because I'm starting to think a PC (or MAC) may be the way to go for the awesome high def experience, but with the most versatile and future proofed setup with interactivity, etc. Plus you can burn discs at 4x speed with the LG. that's really cool, I like that ability. Of course with BD+, the days of making copies of Blu-ray movies, even just to your hard drive (let alone burning to a blu-ray disc) are pretty much over. I've done some research and conversed with some insiders and what Slysoft cracked a few months back was peanuts compared to what BD+ is capable of. they would basically have to crack each movie separately, which I don't think they will have the time for.
Anyway, I went off topic. I'm going to look into and research proper high def/hdmi sound and audio cards for my PC, and look into the option of a blu-ray drive that can also burn things.

I wasn't pushing Blu-ray down anyone's throat. I was stating what I support and defending it against the comment above mine. You do realize I was talking about SD DVD when I said DVD right?
Sounds like you have the best of both worlds. Many on here would think you spent too much money on it though. But I disagree, if you are happy with it then its money well spent.

Something to consider about Blu Ray's superior 50gb storage capacity to HD DVD's 30gb. When Transformers was released on HD DVD, Blu Ray owners complained about the lack of lossless audio on the HD DVD making claims of the audio superiority of the title once it's ported to Blu. So is a 50gb dual layer disc enough to fit lossless audio and all the extras? Look at this review of Beowulf on Blu Ray :
"'Beowulf: The Director's Cut' is a thrilling animated actioner that expands the classic tale with intriguing additions to the story and the characters. Zemeckis's changes may not always work as intended, but the film soars more often than it stumbles. But regardless of your take on the film itself, this Blu-ray import is definitely worth your attention. It not only features a stunning transfer that matches the five-star domestic HD DVD, it ups the ante with a TrueHD mix that sounds even better than the HD DVD's mind-blowing Digital Plus mix. The only downside is that a trio of major exclusive features from the domestic HD DVD didn't make the cut. Still, fans who can't wait for Paramount to announce a domestic Blu-ray release of 'Beowulf' should be more than pleased with this UK import. In my opinion, the results are worth the additional cost."
The 50gb Blu Ray apparently doesn't have the capacity to hold the lossless audio and the extras. So most likely this feature will be released as a 2 disc set when it is released domestically. Expect the same with Transformers when that is released as well. Now while most don't care about multiple discs (myself included), I would like to point out the insane number of Blu Ray supporters who incorrectly believed that their format, with the extra disc capacity would eliminate the 2 disc sets. Guess they were wrong.

I'm really not trying to be a wise guy. But after reading this, I have just one comment. The review clearly praised the Bluray edition of Beowulf. Then you add a comment that effectivley is saying 50 gig doesn't cut it regarding sufficient storage capacity. That being the logic, the 30 gig hddvd format certainly must have been inferior. Apparently I'm not one of the "insane" Blu supporters who ever gave a second thought to whether or not a title would be released on a single platter, or for that matter, a dozen of them. As far as I'm concerned, the movie in all it's video and associated audio splendor is 100% of the viewing experience. I can't remeber the last time I even bothered to look at the special features or "thae making of" junk. And, for those that really care and can't lice with a single disc, be patient. 100 gig Bluray discs are on the horizon for anyone wanting to eliminate that problem.

Something to consider regarding Blu-ray vs hddvd and disc space. All blu discs have the potential to hold everything, if the the compressionist engineers it that way, however with blu-ray there is the unique ability that Blu-ray fans have been talking about all along, even moreso than the disc capacity...and that is its ability to run at higher bit rates. You could fit the lossless audio, 1080p video, and all extras on one disc, however the video would only be about hddvd quality at best. Now with newer releases on blu-ray we are starting to see compression engineers pushing the bit rate spiking to the limit more so that certain high action or darker scenes look even clearer and better than they would have if they weren't spiking in the 40's. It's a balancing act with the disc space...they could chew up the 50GB on the video alone by keeping the video spiking higher & longer than they currently do, which on many scenes (lighter/less action orientated) would be complete overkill, and not barely noticeable to the human eye.
The trick is to spike it higher when it needs to and decide which scenes need it higher and at what compression level is appropriate for that scene. It's a balancing act...too much compression on some scenes and the picture doesn't look as good as it could, not enough on others and it's overkill.
On a 56" TV all the way up to a 10' screen, you can really notice the difference. So it all boils down to what the studios and their compression engineers, decide to do (depending on how many action, and darker scenes, are in the movie, that may require less compression and higher bit rates). If the studio decides to really make a darker action movie like LOTR look beyond what we've seen so far in high-def clarity, Peter Jackson may say "lets double the size of the video, get every scene looking the best, and put some extras on a second disc"...who knows, but the reason you would ever have a second disc on blu-ray is not because everything with lossless audio won't fit on one disc...but rather because the studios want to make the video look much clearer and push the envelope to do so...that's why the BDA choose the higher bit rate specs to begin with...!

Hey higher bit rates require more space not less, if there were a space problem this would complicate it further. You should look into compression tech and bit rates and learn some more about them. BTW for Chris your article does not state the extras would not fit, only that they did not make the cut. This is not at all uncommon, especially when dealing overseas vs domestic content most frequently varies between productions. This is one of the shames of regionalization. Version differences, release date benefits and even micro production houses etc. cant be enjoyed due to regionalization. Sony should drop this from the BR standard. A global market would be far better to stimulate greater sales and therefore better adoption.

I went to wal mart today to possibly pick up a blu-ray player and all thy carry is the ps3 ( no thank you) so i went to target.. ps3.. and hardly any movies!! so i went to kmart there still carrying HD DVD!! boy o' boy BLU RAY is really sweeping the U.S tell me guys what in the hell are all you sony BLU RAY puppets fighting for? looks to me like your waisting your time on a dead format I sure don't see what all the fuss is about

Walmart, Target and K-Mart. Why not check flea markets and pawn shops too. These retailers are not exactly synonomous with quality anything, much less state of the art hi-rez disc players. Perhaps you should set your sights a little higher. For instance, a dedicated A/V merchant. You sound like a guy that just bought a Hummer and are looking for a new set of Chinese tires at Pep Boys.

well it sure is strange when wal-mart said they were going blu-ray exclusive why did every body jump for joy? SONY they tell you what you want to hear and all the puppets take as gold SAD SAD SAD

sour grapes? if the format is dead then why has the 5-10% market share against regular dvd, all of a sudden increase to 10-15%?
You are just pissed at PS3's because they are a big reason why blu-ray won the war...but with a week, these bad boys are 2.0 compliant, and most of the new blu-ray titles to come in the future will have these type of extras, that the PS3 can easily handle.
Sound like the only one that's a puppet is the high-def fan that won't watch newer high def movies in the near future because they are still hddvd fanboys, that can't yet cut the embilical cord that Toshiba wrapped around their necks, and can't get back to high-def, because they've been brain washed into a Sony hating montra. Every CE company, movie studio and retailer in the world would disagree with you on Blu-ray being a dead format, as they are all gearing up for a huge surge, that will really peak just after the next holiday season (1st quarter of 2009).
Did you ever think it could be the location where you live, or did it ever occur to you that Blu-ray titles are selling out like hot cakes now that people are secure that their investment in blu-ray technology sticking around.
Enjoy your little world without a PS3 Pinochio...

if you want to base your home theater on a game console KNOCK YOUR SELF OUT DUDE

I sense bitter resentment towards the PS3 from you, and I think it's because it was a big factor in causing hddvd to tank in the end.
Just because the main purpose I use my home PC for is as a recording studio (digidesign protools)k, does that make it any less a computer or any less a recording studio?
You are just getting caught in a montra of semantics on what the PS3 is. Sure it was designed as a gaming console to succeed the PS2, but when they designed it, they were also thinking beyond gaming, and that is why they helped the BDA to win the war. They knew it could be much more than just a gaming console, as they saw how MS were making the XBox into more than just a gaming console. So they were smart enough to follow suit and design it to become a gaming console/fully interactive entertainment hub for the household. And that's how they have marketed it from the start...throwing in a free Blu-ray in each box to make unknowing consumers aware that it is more than just a gaming console, and is a state of the art blu-ray high-def player. They also knew it would be the easiest to upgrade to 1.1 and by next week, profile 2.0, this didn't just happen by accident.
Toshiba put all their marketing strategy into 3 things (a. sufficient video bit rate & disc storage specs, b. get the product out to market sooner by not developing the initial bit rate/storage capacities further c. make sure the extras are in right out of the gate) But they underestimated Sony and the BDA's marketing strategy of (a. waiting a bit longer to put out to market to make sure the better bit rate specs/storage capacity were there right out of the gate b. phase in the extras, and get the high-def bit rate/storage part right from the start, and c. develop the PS3 as the flagship Blu-ray player and market it as such).
My home theatre is not based on any one part. My surround sound system is just as important as my high-def big screen TV, and is as important as my PS3 Blu-ray Player, that I bought for that purpose and do not use for games at all...I bought the Wii for games, but at least I have the option to use my PS3 for gaming down the road if I choose to do so. It is a fully interactive household high-def player/gaming console, and I'm not knocking myself out, but rather patting myself on the back for being smart enough to see I was making the right choice, and would not see my money wasted on obsolete technology.

Tell me in everything I wrote where did I state I did not want Hi-Def DVD All I said was I Don't want a PS3 like I said I searched all over my town for a Blu-Ray Player and there are NONE to be found! WAL-MART stated they were only going to sell BLU-RAY and all they have is the ps3 and 10 movies and they were selling the ps3 before the statement to me thats a lie so sink all the money into sony you want to BUT don't be surprised if some day you get bit. keep patting your self on the back meanwhile I'm going to watch mine very close keep this in mind SONY needs me I DO NOT need them. besides I doubt that one person (me) who don't buy a PS3 is going hurt sony anyway after all they have a pretty wicked following that frankly scares the hell out of me I mean whats next all the puppets in the world are going to meet at wal-mart and riot against the people who don't buy a PS3 and you think I have sour grapes read this forum a little closer and you will see what I mean AND I'm not pissed because Toshiba lost because I didn't buy that format either

You stated it in you anger towards Sony blu-ray as an obsolete format, when they are the only high-def format for the future, and far from obsolete.
Sounds like you haven't bought either format by your last statement? Then why so bitter against Sony? They are just a corporation like any other corporation, why do you care so much if you didn't buy into high def yet and weren't into the war? Somethings got you in a real hate for Sony and the PS3, that's for sure.
Have you even researched the PS3? You do know they are the only 2.0 blu-ray player on the market right now? My point is, you seem to want to get into blu-ray high-def but have such a hate for Sony that you are limiting yourself on what you'll buy to get it. If you have not bought into hddvd firesaling as you say, then you shouldn't be fooled into thinking that this new high def technology should be at a sub-$200 price point right now. If you haven't become used to having internet interactivity with hddvd, then maybe you could consider a Panasonic or another brand and buy the player on-line? If you must have the internet stuff, then wait til some of the new players come out that aren't Sony. But I hope you aren't stuck on the sub-$200 price point like I see some people are on here. Don't be a puppet to your own hate for Sony, they are just a corporation like Microsoft, Toshiba, Panasonic and another other big corp. What I'm saying is keep you options/mind open, Sony is not the devil. What if you research all the players in the next month or so and the Sony PS3 is still the best value blu-ray player that is 2.0 compliant?
Have you even done the research with an open mind and actually demoed the different Blu-ray players? (& without Sony hating to filter your perceptions, which I find is completely irrational to hate a corporate you hate capitalism? do you hate Microsoft?)
My point was that if you were a true fan of high definition, you would forget what corporation it is and just buy based on what high-def player does the job for you, with the features you are looking for, at the price that you can afford.
Otherwise explain to me the origins of your hate toward Sony so I'll understand where you are coming from, especially since you weren't an hddvd owner.
Life's too freakin short to sweat the small stuff like hating corporations or stopping yourself from enjoying high definition because of irrational reasons towards a particular company.

For HD DVD owners that are looking for a great selection of imports (all with English Audio) and new movies for their player check out Xploited Cinema from Cleveland - /catalog/hd-dvd...

It's hard to say which will win out. Don't expect Blu-ray to simply due to its greater quality; Betamax was of broadcast quality and is still big in Japan, yet Americans chose VHS instead.

Which will win out? That happened several weeks ago. Blu-Ray by a K.O.

Don't you mean by a pay off

What does it matter if it was by payoff? Does that make the Paramount payoff any less worse than it was. There is no admission or proof of a payoff, yet there is with the Paramount thing. So your bitterly loaded remark is completely worthless to make at this point. It only shows you have resentment about losing the war.

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