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Blu-ray vs. HD DVD

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Microsoft, Sony and dozens of other large corporations have spent years NOT agreeing on a standard format for the next generation DVD. The result: two separate and incompatible formats are being offered to consumers. Eventually, like Betamax and VHS before them, one will win and one will lose. As of now, which one will win and which one will lose is uncertain. What is certain is that consumers will lose. Why? Some consumers will buy the losing format and end up with obsolete equipment. Many more consumers will buy nothing until after there is a clear winner - and prices will remain high until a mass market is developed.


It is our belief that we the consumers can determine the winner in this format war. How will we do this? By having YOU vote for the format you prefer to win (Click here or on "Comparison between Blu-ray and HD DVD" link in the "Learn More" section to the left to see a comparison between the two formats). Then we all agree to buy the format that wins the vote. OK, it's as much a social experiment as a consumer stand. But our goal is clear - push the losing format to drop out. Let's take control! WHY DID YOU VOTE AS YOU DID? Share your thoughts in the forum below.
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if you want to base your home theater on a game console KNOCK YOUR SELF OUT DUDE

I sense bitter resentment towards the PS3 from you, and I think it's because it was a big factor in causing hddvd to tank in the end.
Just because the main purpose I use my home PC for is as a recording studio (digidesign protools)k, does that make it any less a computer or any less a recording studio?
You are just getting caught in a montra of semantics on what the PS3 is. Sure it was designed as a gaming console to succeed the PS2, but when they designed it, they were also thinking beyond gaming, and that is why they helped the BDA to win the war. They knew it could be much more than just a gaming console, as they saw how MS were making the XBox into more than just a gaming console. So they were smart enough to follow suit and design it to become a gaming console/fully interactive entertainment hub for the household. And that's how they have marketed it from the start...throwing in a free Blu-ray in each box to make unknowing consumers aware that it is more than just a gaming console, and is a state of the art blu-ray high-def player. They also knew it would be the easiest to upgrade to 1.1 and by next week, profile 2.0, this didn't just happen by accident.
Toshiba put all their marketing strategy into 3 things (a. sufficient video bit rate & disc storage specs, b. get the product out to market sooner by not developing the initial bit rate/storage capacities further c. make sure the extras are in right out of the gate) But they underestimated Sony and the BDA's marketing strategy of (a. waiting a bit longer to put out to market to make sure the better bit rate specs/storage capacity were there right out of the gate b. phase in the extras, and get the high-def bit rate/storage part right from the start, and c. develop the PS3 as the flagship Blu-ray player and market it as such).
My home theatre is not based on any one part. My surround sound system is just as important as my high-def big screen TV, and is as important as my PS3 Blu-ray Player, that I bought for that purpose and do not use for games at all...I bought the Wii for games, but at least I have the option to use my PS3 for gaming down the road if I choose to do so. It is a fully interactive household high-def player/gaming console, and I'm not knocking myself out, but rather patting myself on the back for being smart enough to see I was making the right choice, and would not see my money wasted on obsolete technology.

Tell me in everything I wrote where did I state I did not want Hi-Def DVD All I said was I Don't want a PS3 like I said I searched all over my town for a Blu-Ray Player and there are NONE to be found! WAL-MART stated they were only going to sell BLU-RAY and all they have is the ps3 and 10 movies and they were selling the ps3 before the statement to me thats a lie so sink all the money into sony you want to BUT don't be surprised if some day you get bit. keep patting your self on the back meanwhile I'm going to watch mine very close keep this in mind SONY needs me I DO NOT need them. besides I doubt that one person (me) who don't buy a PS3 is going hurt sony anyway after all they have a pretty wicked following that frankly scares the hell out of me I mean whats next all the puppets in the world are going to meet at wal-mart and riot against the people who don't buy a PS3 and you think I have sour grapes read this forum a little closer and you will see what I mean AND I'm not pissed because Toshiba lost because I didn't buy that format either

You stated it in you anger towards Sony blu-ray as an obsolete format, when they are the only high-def format for the future, and far from obsolete.
Sounds like you haven't bought either format by your last statement? Then why so bitter against Sony? They are just a corporation like any other corporation, why do you care so much if you didn't buy into high def yet and weren't into the war? Somethings got you in a real hate for Sony and the PS3, that's for sure.
Have you even researched the PS3? You do know they are the only 2.0 blu-ray player on the market right now? My point is, you seem to want to get into blu-ray high-def but have such a hate for Sony that you are limiting yourself on what you'll buy to get it. If you have not bought into hddvd firesaling as you say, then you shouldn't be fooled into thinking that this new high def technology should be at a sub-$200 price point right now. If you haven't become used to having internet interactivity with hddvd, then maybe you could consider a Panasonic or another brand and buy the player on-line? If you must have the internet stuff, then wait til some of the new players come out that aren't Sony. But I hope you aren't stuck on the sub-$200 price point like I see some people are on here. Don't be a puppet to your own hate for Sony, they are just a corporation like Microsoft, Toshiba, Panasonic and another other big corp. What I'm saying is keep you options/mind open, Sony is not the devil. What if you research all the players in the next month or so and the Sony PS3 is still the best value blu-ray player that is 2.0 compliant?
Have you even done the research with an open mind and actually demoed the different Blu-ray players? (& without Sony hating to filter your perceptions, which I find is completely irrational to hate a corporate you hate capitalism? do you hate Microsoft?)
My point was that if you were a true fan of high definition, you would forget what corporation it is and just buy based on what high-def player does the job for you, with the features you are looking for, at the price that you can afford.
Otherwise explain to me the origins of your hate toward Sony so I'll understand where you are coming from, especially since you weren't an hddvd owner.
Life's too freakin short to sweat the small stuff like hating corporations or stopping yourself from enjoying high definition because of irrational reasons towards a particular company.

For HD DVD owners that are looking for a great selection of imports (all with English Audio) and new movies for their player check out Xploited Cinema from Cleveland - /catalog/hd-dvd...

It's hard to say which will win out. Don't expect Blu-ray to simply due to its greater quality; Betamax was of broadcast quality and is still big in Japan, yet Americans chose VHS instead.

Which will win out? That happened several weeks ago. Blu-Ray by a K.O.

Don't you mean by a pay off

What does it matter if it was by payoff? Does that make the Paramount payoff any less worse than it was. There is no admission or proof of a payoff, yet there is with the Paramount thing. So your bitterly loaded remark is completely worthless to make at this point. It only shows you have resentment about losing the war.

wow puppet how much is sony paying you IT's my opinion GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Listen Pinochio. You are the one that can't detach from the strings of Sony hating, you are the one you needs to get over his irrational issues. Are you OCD? Did you add a rule in your brain strings that keep you hating Sony so? I don't think I'm the one with the issues who needs to get over it.
And I'm not tied to Sony like you think because though I made a well researched and informed choice to buy the PS3, my next purchase is a Panasonic Blu-ray player.

Just another Sony puppet with an obsolete Blu-Ray player stopping by to say BS to some and Cheers to others. You know who you are.

Me too, call me
It's good to see that several people on here are not bitter, are more realistic about the situation, and are embrasing Blu-ray as the the next generation high-def technology. You Ted, Joe C., Charles L., and others have your eyes & minds open to it, and the more realistic, more common sensible points on here, and are not filtered by resentment and anger towards the technology.

truly spoken by a man who sees only what he wants to see and to hell with every body else be careful your strings could choke you

Are the ropes of irrational Sony hating strangling you from enjoying high def right now? Sounds like you're mind is very open and not filtered. Not!
I dub thee "the puppet master", because all your posts, you can't get past your new favorite montra of calling others puppets. Some of you jokers are on the "prices are increasing" montra, while others have found a new term "Niche market" to sling arrows of hate, but you are the "puppet master".

Blu-ray player prices are not going up. I have not been to this site lately but I see a couple of the more rabid HDDVD supporters continue to try and twist things to their narrow minded way of thinking. The TGDaily piece on higher BR player prices as compiled from is full of holes. First and foremost is the simple fact of the many different type of retailers that are listed on that site. Some are lowballers while others are twice the price of other retailers (go ahead Ron, tell me I'm dumber than a fifth grader). There is no way to accurately gauge retail prices from pricegrabber. Check the prices from just one retailer, take your pick, Best Buy, Circuit City, Crutchfield, and you will see that the prices are not going up. Below is a piece from the Digital Bits that I think explains everything quite nicely. As a side note, does anybody really believe that if HDDVD had won Toshiba would have continued to sell their players for $99.00. Right, like that was going to happen.


Now then... there's been a lot of talk online in the last couple of weeks about when (and if, in some alarmist reports) Blu-ray Disc prices will drop, now that the format war is over. There have even been reports that player prices have gone up since the first of the year (see this piece at TG Daily). Here's something to keep in mind - a lot of those lower prices last year were sales prices over the holidays, and many of them ended in January. Here's something else to keep in mind, lots of new models of Blu-ray players are coming later this spring and over the summer, which means the previous models will be price reduced. You can also expect retailers and the various manufacturers to offer major discounts and other incentives to encourage people to buy Blu-ray players as we head into the holidays later this year. You'll see outright sales, you'll see combo offers where when you buy a new HDTV you'll get a free or discounted Blu-ray player (and keep in mind, with the FCC mandated switch to all-digital broadcasting next February, lots of people will be looking at HDTVs in the coming months). Sony has said that it expects to see at least a few Blu-ray player models priced as low as $299 later this year, with prices possibly under $200 next year (see this piece at The New York Times). And here's something interesting.... Warren Communications News (subscription required) is reporting that Samsung is planning to have a Blu-ray player available for less than $250 at Wal-Mart stores later this year, probably in the third quarter. So if you're interested in a Blu-ray player but price is an issue, just relax. The prices will continue to drop later this year, and plenty of great deals will be available in the coming months. ytwocents

"As a side note, does anybody really believe that if HDDVD had won Toshiba would have continued to sell their players for $99.00. Right, like that was going to happen."
Toshiba WAS planning to phase out their production of both the entry and high end models. Their plan was to position themselves for manufacturing of the mid level player only. Leaving the high end to manufacturers like Onkyo and the entry level players to companies like Venturer. So to answer your question, companies like Venturer would have been offering entry level players in the $99 - $150 price range. It's a null point at this time however.
At least it's really affordable to jump into Blu Ray these days (sarcastic eye roll).

If you can't ante up and run with the big dogs, stay out of the game. Blu-Ray is worth every nickel it costs, and then some. I had a chance to buy a gently used hd dvd player for $50 and politley said "no thanks."

Your post is confusing on so many levels. So you don't want the mass adoption of a high def optical media? You believe that the $400+ price tag is acceptable and it's ok for Blu ray to remain a niche product which in turn will equal a short shelf life.
Secondly, how can anyone justify these incomplete players (no PIP, no ethernet features) at these outrageous prices? Later this year when the Blu Ray Disc Association finally releases profile 2.0 players (finally 100% on par with the HD DVD feature set), I'll start seriously looking at the format, until then, Blu Ray is joke on consumers. You're getting an overpriced player that doesn't offer the features of the lower priced, now extinct HD DVD format. Seriously even the scene selection menus of current BD's are so elementary, I can't help but laugh. Apparently you've never even seen an HD DVD in action.

Mass market adoption will happen with blu-ray. People just have to be more patient. DVD never took the world by storm overnight against VHS, and their prices weren't always under the $200 mark. This is a brand new format in its early stages of adoption...give it time, give it a chance to mature at a natural rate in the market place. Toshiba's firesales have dissillusioned many that that is the norm and where blu-ray should be right now for mass adoption. If that were true than hddvd would have won this thing already. The fact is, when you really think about it, North America is not ready for mass adoption of high-def as it stands today (at least for a few more years), just like they are not ready for mass adoption of downloads within at least the next 10 years because the infrastructure is not in place). So too the high-def TVs & projectors/screens are not at the level yet that makes high-def appealing to the masses. That is something the CE manufacturers and retailers are working on via the law of economics. As more new high def TVs/Projectors sell on the market, the faster they will sell, and the lower the prices become as they are then able to cut manufacturing costs and MSRPs, and make it up on volume. Once it gets to a certain point, it will exponentially increase in adoption, and lower in price, just like with DVD.
Many blu-ray movies actually look better than they ever could have on hddvd because of better compression engineering on the video in particular.
Don't forget the most popular Blu-ray player in the world by far, and a big reason why blu-ray won, is because of the PS3. Remember, next week all these players are 2.0 players with one little download 2.20!
But be patient, the rest will fall into place at a more realistic rate than we saw with the format war firesales, which was just Toshiba dumping their dead technology on many unknowing consumers.
Also you have to remember, that you come from the hddvd fan world where the Pip and ethernet features were one of the biggest arguments used as a montra against blu-ray during the war. Most consumers won't know or care about that at first because what they are really being sold on, and should have been the focus right from the beginning, is the high-def picture and sound itself. Even sound would take a back seat to the picture...that is how it will be sold to the consumer first and foremost, because that is the most important difference from dvd...not the menus or the interactivity (though that stuff is kool too, and will eventually get to where hddvd was within a year), but rather the picture clarity, detail, in true high-def, is what really matters, and always has from the beginning...again, that is the reason Blu-ray took longer to come out than they could perfect higher disc capacity and bit rates in the technology, and make that the main focus, instead of getting the extras right up front.

Although the Bits is a BR biased site and always has been, this is not a bad article. Problem they don't proove anywhere that prices are not going up (because they are). TG Daily is only one source of this information. Their only statement is that we will eventually see prices go down. This statement doesn't require a rocket scientist to make (a fifth grader probably could have made this prediction). All technology eventually comes down in price! Price reductions on discontinued product, also no surprise or difficult prediction, as it's a standard practice in most industries and sectors to reduce discontinued product. Although that will help the average price, while be questionable what value that discontinued products have, the new models coming out are at higher to much higher pricing than what is already on the market and is likely to offset the average price in the upward direction. This is BR propaganda the article starts with a statement, as if planning to disproove it and only follows through with support for the statement. Prices are not yet down (in fact they are increasing, both what's on the shelf already and that which is coming) and as the article says 'The prices will continue to drop later this year' we still have to wait to possibly see reasonable prices.

New products to come are going to come out at same or lower prices than many current blu-ray players today (not higher prices). Also, prices are not going up as you state...the pre and post holiday sales are over so many players are back to their MSRPs. NONE of the MSRPs have gone up. There just aren't as many sales right now, as it is the worst time of year anyway.
Reasonable price is in the eye of the beholder. What's reasonable to you may be based against Toshiba firesale prices, which were by no means normal, but happened during the format war none the less. What's reasonable to an early adoptor of the new Blu-ray technology (and yes it is still fairly new and not at a mass market point yet), is to pay the $400+ dollars now and not have to wait, get a PS3 (2.0 compliant next week), and have a future proof high def system to watch. What's $400-$800 when you've already spent $4000 on audio equipment and a new high def 56" TV...? Plus if you're likely to spend $2000-$4000 over the next three to five years on movie titles and rentals, what is $400 really hurt a new early adopting consumer? Remember, they don't have the mindset from the war on the firesale price points. Just have patience and give it time for this relatively new technology to 'naturally' lower in price.

Well Charles if one spent $4000 on audio and video equipment I doubt they would want to augment that with a game console; but instead would venture to round it out with a stand alone unit. I know thats the decision I would and did make myself.

PS is an excellent source for the information for the exact reason you claim it isn't. It not only gives us the leading box movers like The Bits or yourself have; but gives us an honest picture across the entire industry, all retailers of all types and sizes and price structures.

Now with the British pound trading at $2 to the £ does that mean that Samsung will have a Blu-ray player (profile 1.1?), in the Wal-Mart British subsiduary ASDA at £125. I doubt it!

Thank you Mark for bringing a little sanity to this forum. Some of the "die hards" in this room are still greiving over the hddvd loss by posting cr**p about the rise of Blu-Ray prices. And they think they are fooling readers buy simply saying they are providing a service as messangers. BS. It's obvious in thier writing that they don't know anything about consumer business. They are simply techies that are trying to get in their last stabs at the better Blu-Ray product. One other voice of sanity was Carl who tried to say pretty much what your message is conveying. He was called names and put down shamelessly for attempting to set the record sratight. I don't know anyone here except from what I read. It's my first and last visit. But I imagine that my reply and your message will come under attack too if these characters still visit this forum. Good Luck to you. Congratulations to Sony and Blu-Ray. And thanks for a good sensible message.

Actually, they are going up, several points of evidence have been provided not only by ex-HD DVD enthusiasts but bluray fans as well, just not all on this site. Check amazons boards, they better represent everything.

PS, I don't know if you've been here very long, but digital bits has always been listed as a pro-blue site. Fairness in digital journalism can become very biased very quickly, and digital bits has been since day one.

Telling people to use Amazon as their reference point, is like using Wikipedia to argue that one technology is better than another.
The sites/evidence you talk about, even the bluray fans that say so, are wrong about prices increasing. The MSRP has not increased on one thing since before Christmas. What price tag is put on it by retailers (Amazon included), may have changed, but the pre and post holiday sales are over. just think about what time of year it is. It's the worst time of year to buy anything.

Charles, at what point do you get reasonable. It is only sensible for Sony and other manufacturers and retailers to increase their price on the format. It is good business, the product has nearly two years on the market, fairly long for early adoption and been a loss center for most of that time. If there is any chance of making the kind of money early adopters bring it is in the short term. Therefore this window of opportunity must be acted on before it closes. This is good business for those involved, it's just bad for the consumer.

Thank you for disagreeing without flaming me.
Bill Hunt of the Bits was pro blu as you say but he was not a blu fanboy and there is a difference. The Bits is a website about movie news. Mr Hunt chose to promote Blu-ray simply to steer his readers into a intelligent decision based on his inside information. He was right about the VHS and Beta war, and he was right about this one as well. If Mr Hunt did not have good inside info he must be a prophet because everything he stated came true.
A Panasonic BD30 cost $499, the same as when it was introduced. I don't see how that is going up. During the holidays there were some lower sale prices, and special pricing to compete with Toshibas fire sale. So if people conceive todays prices as a price increase than so be it. And I will say this one last time. If people are complaining about spending $400 to $500 for what is the heart of your true high def experience after spending thousands on all the other equipment, wow, that just leaves me speechless.

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